‘Free our boys now'

Will TJ and Hooch's mates just be quiet and stop whinging! These criminals have been sent to prison and the majority of the public agree (macc express poll). They'll be out in 6 months if they behave - criminal damage is an offence not an art form ! So what if they are talented at what they do - how much public property have they desecrated 'practicing' their talent over the years I wonder????? I'm a talented footballer does that mean I can go and kick footballs at cars, windows, people, pets, houses? That's a rhetorical question by the way !

b d
18/09/2007 at 14:50

What the hell is going on in this country?. Two kids get 12 & 15 months for graffiti. The marquess of blandford gets 6 months for dangerous driving, careless driving and causing criminal damage. This was nit his first offence either, is that justice?. We need to get a grip, these kids have done wrong, who hasn't at their age. They haven't threatened anyone or put lives at risk. They have a talent too, so what's needed is a little correction & re direction. What ever happens they have learnt their lesson so let's get them out of prison.

nonnaclaup, West Yorks
18/09/2007 at 10:45

have the two boys sprayed graffiti on their parents houses and cars,also did they buy the paint for them ? somehow i don,t think so. !!!

budgesnr, macclesfield
16/09/2007 at 16:45

FREE OUR BOYS NOW!

WE KNOW THEY DID WRONG BUT THEY DONT DESERVE YEAR+ IN PRISON. WE NEED REAL CRIMINALS IN PRISON...

emoali
13/09/2007 at 10:03

I'm very disappointed after reading some of the rude and unnecessary comments made by some of you emotionally charged individuals. I would have thought that the people of Macclesfield would have stood up and supported these two talented Maxonians. It doesnt matter whether you like or dislike this form of art. Everybody has their own opinion. The point that Philip Heathcote and campaigning friends are trying to make is that the punishment of 12 and 15 months that has been dealt is not fitting of the crime that Whit and TJ have commited. This sentence will not only last for 12 or 15 months. It will last for the rest of their lives. By handing out this harsh punishment the boys will find it very difficult to go to university and get a job in later life. Is this really the correct sentence for doing graffiti? People of Macclesfield should be ashamed. Your just as bad as the courts at dealing out fair sentences.

Jennifer Parker
12/09/2007 at 14:33

Tommy Dolan, 56: What did you think your kid was up to when he used to arrive home covered in paint spray?

Did you think he was a vandal?

What did you do about it?

The Catcher, In the Rye
12/09/2007 at 09:10

"Tom wants to try and carry on with his art in prison and has asked me to find out whether there will be any courses he can do to keep up his skills while he¿s there."

That's maturity, right there.

Lucy Smith, Macclesfield
12/09/2007 at 00:12

You would rather send to jail to harmless people than others that go out with the intentions just to beat people up that have long hair or for the clothes they wear...

you are obviously brain dead old people.

FREE KREK & MERS

llllllllloyd
11/09/2007 at 23:39

Would it make you feel better if the boys were sobbing their hearts out? They're trying to stay strong so I resent that comment about them looking as though they don't care!

Also, I don't think anyone disagrees about punishing them, even the boys themselves will admit that what they did was wrong and there should be a punishment but can we look at other cases such as Kiel Simpson who had an illegal dog which killed Ellie Lawrenson. He got eight weeks and hearing that really made me feel ashamed of the justice system when we give 15 month sentences to boys who have caused no danger in society! It is disgusting to think that just recently in the same newspaper this occured:

"The binge drinker was sentenced to four weeks jail after admitting breaching her supervision order, theft, causing danger to road users, criminal damage, and resisting a constable in the execution of his duty, when she appeared before the town¿s magistrates last week."

I think there's something seriously wrong with that!

Lucy Smith, Macclesfield
11/09/2007 at 23:03

HTB.

You should try reading into this before commenting. The parents already offered to pay for the damage.

These two would be better off working in the community.

What good is it doing locking them up and using up the last spaces that could be housing the Rapists and Violent offenders

Phil Heathcote

Phil Heathcote
11/09/2007 at 17:52

Sue, If thats the only argument you can come up with then thats pretty poor. My Point is, they are talented artists and they could be doing something more positive in the community like they were already doing before they locked them up. Leave the space in jail for the people who pose a threat to the public. Ok, they did wrong and none of us supporters of these two would deny that, but they arent dangerous.

Phil Heathcote

Phil Heathcote
11/09/2007 at 17:48

To Mr Heathcote, when you said about having the boys design a tattoo for you, surely that is totally different to spray-painting large areas of other people's property and causing criminal damage. Or have I misunderstood, and this tattoo is to be spray-painted on the front of your house

Sue Macc
11/09/2007 at 11:03

when you talk about being fed up of graffiti on the strrets i thin what most of you imidiatly think of is the people who pick up spay paint and write on the wall there name with no though or consideration of what there doing. they will do it any where and everywhere. That these two indidviduals do is complatly diffrent! They sit for hours thinking of designs that are astheticly pleasing to the eye. They then take time and effort to brighten our dull town. As alot of you have called our 'great town' in my opinion our town is stagnent and boring and i cant wait to leave to go some where more open minded. Yes they have commited a crime and as such should be punished but the other things they have done should be taken into consideration, how highly comended as artist they are and as some one pointed out even the major of manchester said that.

i have comuted to manchester and back for the past to years in the dull trail of the rail way system and when i see somthing diffrent it lightens my day, it gives me hope and that is somthing i somtimes find hard to come by.

to me its seems a joke that some people who can give hope, even to a minority, be punished so severly. if we look at the reaction aswell i do now feel i am in the minority.

i understand i will be biasd in this as i like graffitti art (opposed to random vandalism) and i am of the younger generation but that doesnt mean any comment i make is less valid.

give macclesfield back some hope of being a vibratant town rather than just another boring suburb, free TJ and Whit!

p.s sorry if my spelling is off, i suffer from dislexiya but am by no means dumb.

Eddy_b
11/09/2007 at 02:33

A comment that it is the old who do not understand the young is rather nebulous. I am not old by any way. I see a crime committed against the community which should be punished, and I happen to think that was right.

They should repair the damage? Excuse me but one offence alone at the East Lancashire Railway cost £13,000. There where 33 offence committed and that would come to, not far short of, £500,000. It would take the pairs years to repair that damage by cleaning it off.

The blame lays equally with the parents as, you have to wonder if as kids they were ever taught right from wrong and disciplined. On Sunday morning the Poll was standing at 69% in favour of sentences and 31% against. At least you campaign has been successful in reducing the poll to 60% for and 40% against. I do believe that is a reasonable majority who believe that the sentences were correct.

I will agree with others, that the problem is that many of the other sentences have been derisorily soft.

Another point is, that the offences were not committed in Macclesfield, but in other area's. It is just to the Town's shame that the two lads came from the Macclesfield Council area.

Willy K
10/09/2007 at 12:25

If they're the scum on our Town's streets then I feel so much better - I was under the impression I should be more afraid of the drug dealers and people carrying knives and we all know that certainly goes on in Macclesfield. Look at what happened in the Queen's Pub on Sutherland Street not long ago - that to me is the scum you speak of, the person who walked into that pub and left with blood on his hands and a life hanging in the balance, that's what I'd like sorting out please?

Sarah_F
10/09/2007 at 10:59

"If I had caught them damaging my property they would have begged for the Police to take them away."

And what does that make you! i know which sort of person i would rather have on the streets!

FREE KREK & MERS

Ally Parker
10/09/2007 at 10:21

These two lads got what they deserved, The town has been plauged by this scum long enough. The parents should be ashamed of themselves and their Children. If I had caught them damaging my property they would have begged for the Police to take them away.

The Chairman, Macclesfield
10/09/2007 at 02:08

`Anon¿ asks `who was the actual victim of these crimes?¿ Well, volunteers who spent hundreds of hours restoring a carriage at the East Lancashire Railway conservation project, only to have these clowns vandalise it were amongst the victims, as were the children who were disappointed that the train was out of action whilst the graffiti was removed.

May I suggest that if the 500 people who have signed the online campaign to release these two were each contributed £26, it would pay for the £13,000 worth of criminal damage which the two caused whilst committing the 33 offences which they admitted to, otherwise the rest of us will also be victims by having to fund the repairs.

There is no such thing as a victimless crime.

PS I hope that the police take note of Ms McDonald¿s admission on p4 of the ME, 05/09/2007 `my son used to do a bit of that sort of thing¿ ¿ might be worth investigating!?

HTB
9/09/2007 at 21:23

It is absolutely ridiculous that they are still in there! They are not bad kids, they are very friendly and helpful, I know them myself and I have never heard a bad word spoken about them. Many rapists and people who are actual threats to the public get less! It's not "let's keep them off the streets", it's "let's keep them out of university and keep them from doing the good work that they do". There's no doubt that what they did was wrong and that they deserve a punishment, but make that a fine and maybe a punishment of having to clean off all their graffiti but a sentence like that is ridiculous! Why would you want to take a decent man out of university to go to prison? I would have more favour if their art included profanity or insulting images, but they really don't!

A fine and community service to clean up graffiti - what is wrong with that?

A punishment to fit the crime! It is insulting and I feel terribly for both of the boys - I can't believe how genuinely kind-hearted they are and how broken this could make them and prevent them from doing the good that they do in society!

Free Krek, Free Mers!

Lucy Smith, Macclesfield
9/09/2007 at 20:44

I want to enlighten the people that suggest these guys got off lightly. I have heard from somebody that works within the local police force, who stated, 'this sentence is a joke, drug dealers that distribute heroin get off with less'. So there you are, grasp this concept please, before writing your opinions. kreky and mers also did positive work within the community, why the hell have they locked up these lads who have shown they are willing to give something back to the community. Talk about the wrong lads in the wrong place. I'm sick of drug dealers and boozed up thugs making my town dangerous, lock these idiots up instead.

David

David Moss
9/09/2007 at 15:48

"MORE than 15,000 crimes did not go before the courts in Greater Manchester last year because police let off offenders with a caution.

A total of 32 sex attacks, 33 robberies and 3,071 assaults were punished with a caution, reprimand or final warning instead of an appearance in the dock.

And eight young rapists have been handed final warnings instead of being charged for their crimes over the last five years.

The M.E.N, which obtained the figures through the Freedom of Information Act, can reveal a huge increase in cautions, reprimands and final warnings - up 48 per cent from 2002.

Some victims have criticised police for massively over-using the 'cheap and easy' caution on serious villains who they say should be punished in court.

But senior police said the rise in the use of cautions was part of a government drive to `keep lower-level criminals and young offenders out of the criminal justice system and provide them with the support to break the cycle of crime'. And they said the views and welfare of victims, who are fearful of taking a case to court, are considered.

Pc Norman Brennan, from the Victims of Crime Trust , said: "Cautions are all well and good where it is appropriate to use them and they have the desired effect. The sad reality is that cautions and fixed penalty fines are often dished out now as a cheaper, less effective alternative deterrent for many who should be before the courts"

I think this speaks for itself! Send down the Sick Rapists and Wife Beaters and Free these two Artists.

Let them do something more positive within the community

Phil Heathcote

Phil Heathcote
8/09/2007 at 14:46

Perhaps the true crime in all of this and the duscussion we're having is that there is no communication between the generations anymore? The young won't listen to the older, more experienced and the older aren't prepared to accept young people's ideas and visions for their future's. AND i am not infering graffiti as those ideas - I am talking more widely here. I'm saying society has got some real issues and anti social behaviour is one at the forefront but until we ALL take responsibilty to try to make this better how will annything change? How can one sentence deter other's from committing the same crime? It doesn't seem to work in any other cases. People commit the same crimes over and over again and no matter how harsh the sentence or what example is being made it still continues? I really don't think it fair to blame the youth today and have done with it - there are deeper issues and everyone needs to look at it carefully. It should be prevention we are working on - How can we make things better? What can we all do? And just because I think their sentences unfair does not mean I share other's views when they're talking about rape or murder - these are not issues related to the graffiti and therefore, they don't come into it unless you're saying, as other's have that they are not receiving strong enough sentences which I agree with.

Yes - they have damaged people's property and it's wrong but some have said those in support would feel very differently if it were their property and I have to say that it would very much depend on how you view graffiti in this instance, I happen to like it, which is a personal thing and not something I should be berated for.

Sarah_F
7/09/2007 at 18:52

Nothing exemplifies the sickness and degradation of the present society more than its ¿criminal justice¿ system, a cold-blooded infliction of suffering on a scale that far surpasses whatever offenses its victims may have been guilty of. This jail sentence is absolutely ridiculous - of course it is not right to deface public properties or buildings but surely the right course of action would be a warning and a hefty fine. The fact that we are sending two young boys to prison, a breeding ground for criminals and drug addicts is absolutely ludicrous. What is the purpose of this sentence? Do we want to create more criminals? It would seem so!

Oh and something for conservatives to think about - "The idea has the backing of Andrew Pelling, a Conservative member of the London Assembly who chaired the graffiti investigative committee earlier this year. "Companies use graffiti imagery all the time to promote things to young people," says Mr Pelling. "We have to accept that graffiti is part of their lives. So, I think graffiti walls are needed and, if they are going to mean anything, they need to be in prominent places."

Perhaps we should look inside the Egyptian pyramids, where many workers left their "tags" thousands of years ago.

But just to emphasise this point again - we are in danger of destroying the lives of two children by sending them to jail.

Elizabeth Scott
7/09/2007 at 18:48

Nothing exemplifies the sickness and degradation of the present society more than its ¿criminal justice¿ system, a cold-blooded infliction of suffering on a scale that far surpasses whatever offenses its victims may have been guilty of. This jail sentence is absolutely ridiculous - of course it is not right to deface public properties or buildings but surely the right course of action would be a warning and a hefty fine. The fact that we are sending two young boys to prison, a breeding ground for criminals and drug addicts is absolutely ludicrous. What is the purpose of this sentence? Do we want to create more criminals? It would seem so!

Oh and something for conservatives to think about - "The idea has the backing of Andrew Pelling, a Conservative member of the London Assembly who chaired the graffiti investigative committee earlier this year. "Companies use graffiti imagery all the time to promote things to young people," says Mr Pelling. "We have to accept that graffiti is part of their lives. So, I think graffiti walls are needed and, if they are going to mean anything, they need to be in prominent places."

Perhaps we should look inside the Egyptian pyramids, where many workers left their "tags" thousands of years ago.

But just to emphasise this point again - we are in danger of destroying the lives of two children by sending them to jail.

Elizabeth Scott
7/09/2007 at 18:47

Nobody has called them heroes, or justified what they have done. We feel the sentences are too harsh and that perhaps a better one would have been to make them apologise in person and to clean up their work and the work of other's as punishment. They were working with the community and have made an attempt to show they are sorry and want to give something back - to promote their art in a productive and positive way and to teach other's to do the same. I also think that insulting their parents is both rude and totally unecessary of you and that actually you should be ashamed.

Sarah_F
7/09/2007 at 18:26

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